In Her Own Words
July 17, 2008
To all my dear friends and those who support me;
Where do I start?
My life has been chaotic since I can remember. When I was 3 years old my mother was searching for shelter and comfort in Kiryas Joel and married my step father. I grew up in a community that is closed to the outside world. When I turned 17 my parents decided who I would marry. So I did.
Being that most of my family, if not all, are not frum, some not religious, I always had questions in my mind of where I belong and what path to take in life.
After marriage things did not work out with my husband and we decided to get divorced. I opened my eyes to a world that I never knew about, a world that most of my family has been in, and tried to leave the place that I knew as a child to start something new.
Some people are misjudging the decisions I made after leaving Kiryas Joel. Please understand. My vision was blurry by the vast opportunities in the outside world and my limited understanding of right and wrong was not clear to me. At the same time, my love and care for my daughter was always there and remains unconditional.
Living alone with a child in my hand was not easy.Trying to make the best of friends, finding the right people to support me, looking for direction and guidance, nothing came easily.
My heart was always with my daughter. I always loved her, and did all I can as a mother. Being a single mother in a world where you have no path is not easy. I did all I could in my new role, living in a new world, trying to survive.
To question my deep love for my daughter is beyond me. All I have done in the last few years was for my daughter’s good. I always have and will always do everything in my power to fight for her, to support her as a loving mother.
I am here for my daughters sake.
I am here to survive.
I am here to live my life the way I choose.
I am here because finding support coming from where I come from is not easy.
I am here to tell my friends and supporters that I need your support.
I need to know that people are hearing me, understanding me and maybe feeling what I feel.
In the last few years I learned some hard lessons in life, all while becoming independent, learning lessons I never had to know before I was married. My eyes opened up to some good things and some bad things. Making choices was difficult.
I would like thank you for visiting, for those showing me support.
I appreciate it with all my heart, and may God be with you.
Gitty Kalfa (Grunwald)
Comments
155 Responses to “In Her Own Words”
Gitty gitty gitty…you’ve been through so much. As a mom, I wish you only the best……Your daughter deserves a loving mom.
Just be true, and it will all work itself out
Reuven, if by true you mean she should continue the fight then you’re right. Otherwise I don’t see how it will just work itself out.
Dear Gitty,
you inspire many of us, i am a single mother as well, and understand exactly where you come from.
it will all be good, as you say, survive.
Goldi.
wow,
Gitty I live in williamsburg, I am dying to get out of my strict life, I wish I could, I am so affraid to have to end up in any simular situation like you
I am proud of you, and your my idol now.
Love,
JT
Gitty,
I am proud of you!
YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A MAGICAL LIFE. IT WON’T BE EASY,
BUT IT WILL BE MAGICAL. YOU ARE BRAVE!
xo
jane
Gitty….
You know that I have your back. You also know that if you need anything I am here.
Keep Strong !!
Lenny
why do people that dont know you say things that they dont know anything about, this is a great idea, good luck. be well
Ari
Gitty,
Your situation is not easy, and I feel for you. That being said, you’re facing some tough choices. You will either need to put your daughter, or yourself, first. It can’t be both. Adults can go on a journey searching for a path - children need stability, defined parameters, and a clear understanding of what to expect.
God help you make the right choices, and even if you defer custody for a few years while you sort stuff out - she’s still your daughter and will always be.
Steve
Keep your strength up, Gitty — so many of us who don’t even know you are proud of you.
Gitty,
May g-d bless you for your bravery and spirit, your patients and your pain… and most of all for your sacrifice. In a world that does not grant you the same liberty each and every person and soul in it desires.
The right to choose the life you would like to live, and the right to express your love for your daughter by buying her pink ballet slippers, and barbie dolls. There is no way that your daughter doesnt know how much you love her. She will understand in time that yes, though hard and trying you chose what you, her one and ONLY mother, thought was best for her.
As every parent does. Any parent who comes across your story and for even a moment questions your love, or dedication to your daughter. Must themselves examine their parenting decisions and if they can say (in entire honesty) that they themselves parented according to ways their parents (or community/religion) or ex-husbands approved of, they are probably not being entirely honest.
In ALL our lives we make the decisions we think are right, unfortunately you have people too blind to see that you are doing as they do every day (with every decision, be it what color to wear, or whether to pray or not). Just because we choose, does not mean we are able to know what the consequences of our decisions may be, nor if g-d would say we are right…. but g-d knows your soul… and does NOT in this religion support what they are putting you through.
My heart cries for you and although I’ve no children of my own… I hope that someday I may remember the pure love of a mothers sacrifice… and realize how precious time with our children is. Unfortunately we live in a world that will tka ea child from under its mother’s wings. I only hope this ‘world’ you deal with and fight with (To rescue your child from living life without this liberty, of free will and choice) wakes up to realize this is not the way of G-d, not the way of Jews… and certainly a cruelty no punishment in THIS world can erase, no repentance take back.
May g-d bless and be with you, and return your daughter to a safe and loving home with you, permanently, and in peace.
R.F.
While I think that you have the right to choose your own life, I wonder about the life of your daughter. Your daughter is an innocent person who also deserves to have a choice.
I am a child of divorce and was unhappy that my parent’s tried to make choices for me. This child of yours has a father and this is his child also. Doesn’t he have a right to the way his child will be raised?
Dear Gitty,
I was so taken by your story…my wish for you is that you will have your daughter back with you…this is my prayer for you. I’m so sad that you are going through this…I hope you have found some good friends to support you…to be there for you when you need care & love.
One thing I know is the power of prayer, ask G-D to help you…he answers our prayers.
You are strong & you will find your way..don’t ever stop looking at rainbows.
You are in my thoughts & prayers tonite…
Kind regards,
Jan
PS Gitty don’t worry or even think about those who judge you…no one on earth can.
Take care of yourself Gitty…don’t lose your way…you will indeed find happiness & have your daughter back ,if you keep your focus on that!
Jan
Gitty, the truth is still in Yiddishkeit. I’m sorry you had such a bad experience. There is so much real joy in living a Torah life. Maybe you just need a different approach. Have you heard of Rebbetzin Jungreis? She talks about emunah and getting through life, and when you hear her you feel so inspired and realize it’s the truth. There is also Aish HaTorah, which can be very inspiring and cool. They have Discovery seminars. I can give you information on these programs, or others, and contacts in Brooklyn who can help you be frum in your own way. You are so lucky you were born as a yiddishe neshama. Don’t throw that away! There is always teshuva and turning your life around!
Be in touch. I truly care.
Leah
be strong, and rise above the fray. if you have a vision, then you have the power to make it come true.
Gitty, I feel your pain and i understand how much love u have for your daughter, but Gitty u cant let your daughter suffer, if she grows up the way you are treating her now she wont have a life she will be torn into peices, she is still so young and does not know what u want from her, its not good for her.
Gitty I myself had a similar story to yours I had a boy though and not a girl, but then i decided what was best for him, I left him with his father i didnt wanna confuse his young mind, I myself moved far away, Gitty I still love my child but i dont see him or talk to him all i get is cute pictures from him by mail, I love it this way, I do whatever i want with my life the life i chose, which i felt is best for me, im waiting for another few yrs till my son will grow old enough for himself to know which life he wants and when he is strong with himself thats when i will go see him!
Gitty, dont give up, but i beg u one thing leave your daughter with her father now that will be best for her, I know that its hard not to talk to your own child, but i promise u that later on in the years u will thank me..
I keep on praying for u that everything should work out to its best, but u need a little time of your own too, so go enjoy life!
P.S. remmember that Hashem is still with u wherever u go and whichever life u choose u will always stay a jew! and God will always listen to your prayers.
We never know we might still get back on our old tracks one day!
I dont stop thinkin bout u, and im holding ur hands.
All the best,
Libby
Your priority right now should be to get your GED, go to a good college, and fill in the gaps in your education. You shouldn’t be looking for jobs yet; you need more education to get a good job. Stay with your grandparents and go to school first. They can watch your daughter whilst you are in class. Once you have a college degree, you will be in a better position to get a job.
As far as custody, if one parent is in a cult and the other isn’t, custody should *automatically* go to the parent who is not in the cult. Likewise, if one parent is sexist and would raise the child in a misogynistic environment, it is self-evident that custody should go to the non-sexist parent. There is no way that the best interests of the child can be served if she is deprived of an education, raised on superstition and fairy tales, and taught that she is inferior to men.
Gitty and to those in your boat.. G-D gave you the gift of freedom of choice “good or bad” we all have our hardships in life and we all make choices .. You are independent and grown up .. keep on making your own choices as you have until now, however take reasonability for them! And be happy about it .. or if you are not, simply make another choice .. until you find the happiness and accomplished feeling most of us have, that you lack so much..
You have the right to live the way you find it GOOD for you .. but remember .. you will bear the consequence as well .. and that is .. if good for you means living an unreligious life .. eating stew fish that you never new existed, in a non kosher Williamsburg Bridge restaurant, or driving/riding a car on Shabbos.. that is ok (for you) .. but don’t expect that the other partner in this Childs life will allow you to make that choice for HIS child without a fight just because you have the title MOTHER ..
Gitty, with the title mother, besides being able to feed / dress / play with your child, comes a huge responsibility.. and that responsibility is called “judgment and stability”, to be able to provide a healthy nurture and un-confrontational upbringing to a young child like Esther Miriam.. and now that you and your ex are not together .. understand that the one who will be found by the NON JEWISH judge to have more and better of it, will be the one who will get to make choices for this little kid.. without any guaranty that the kid will ultimately adopt to it .. but never the less give it the best shot, as every decent parent does..
You are not the first and not the last mother who doesnt have or totally lost custady of their children, here in the US fathers have as much rights to their children as mothers due, altthought mothers are preffered that is nt a rule.. so Gitty, you are not fighting the chasids as you put it, you are fughting the father of this child, and let the non-jewish court decide, ans if you loose, let see your article in the NY MAG as hoe the legal system let you down!!
Finally Gitty, “we say that the answer is not out there. It’s inside.” take a deep breath, stop running, and relize that you have the power and ability within yourself to achive all you want! but .. you wont get it thru the cry baby song.. and the tabloids wont help either….
I agree with most things that were said here.
I also live in an ultra chassidish community and I feel so out of place, I want to fly away, I don’t want to be secular, but I want to be modern.
I feel so restricted here.
but I got a family and 2 jobs, hard to just get away from that.
Gitty, May god give you the strength to overcome all this, and you come through with flying colors.
Gitty,
Hi! I really feel bad for you, since you are just a very unfortunate human being. You grew up in the tiny part of the heimishe community that is closed-minded and communistic. It is a true pity that you could never experience the true beauty of our religion out of your own will.
While I would not dare to judge you, I have ask you to please be open-minded and explore the other sectors of the jewish community. There is a fountain of warmth and love waiting to welcome you! Only when you have properly looked into ALL your options, can you say you made a smart decision.
Remember one thing, the people in KJ may be communists and harassing, but they do not speak for or represent even a single other jew. It would be unwise and ill-advised to base any decision on their behavior.
One more thing, please think about what you will have left after the lights go out. Beauty? That may last 15-20 years. Money? Good luck having any real friends who will be there for you in good times and bad. Fame? There is 15 minutes of that, and you have already used up 12.
Perhaps a loving and warm family from which happiness will truly radiate may be more appealing. Something you get to leave over in this world.
Something you will be proud of every living moment.
May Hashem Bless you and help you make the right decision with a clear mind!
Love,
Your fellow open-minded community.
Gitty,
Hi! I really feel bad for you, since you are just a very unfortunate human being. You grew up in the tiny part of the heimishe community that is closed-minded and communistic. It is a true pity that you could never experience the true beauty of our religion out of your own will.
While I would not dare to judge you, I have ask you to please be open-minded and explore the other sectors of the jewish community. There is a fountain of warmth and love waiting to welcome you! Only when you have properly looked into ALL your options, can you say you made a smart decision.
Remember one thing, the people in KJ may be communists and harassing, but they do not speak for or represent even a single other jew. It would be unwise and ill-advised to base any decision on their behavior.
One more thing, please think about what you will have left after the lights go out. Beauty? That may last 15-20 years. Money? Good luck having any real friends who will be there for you in good times and bad. Fame? There is 15 minutes of that, and you have already used up 12.
Perhaps a loving and warm family from which happiness will truly radiate may be more appealing. Something you get to leave over in this world.
Something you will be proud of every living moment.
May Hashem Bless you and help you make the right decision with a clear mind!
Love,
Your fellow open-minded community.
Yossi, I couldn’t have said it better.
We always support you Gitty. You know where you are always welcome.
Gitty, I left the Boro Park community 9 years ago and I now live in Atlantic City and working in the casino industry. I want you to know that leaving the close-kint hasidic community is EXTREMELY difficult and even after all the solid proof I had that leaving was the right thing to do I still find myself speculating sometimes about what would have been different if I had stayed. But I KNOW that I couldn’t possibly have stayed. I urge you to stay strong and continue your battle for liberty and justice and the realization of the ameriucan dream., You will achieve vidication one day. I would love to meet you to tell you more about myself and hear from you.
Gitty - wow - feel so bad for what you are going through! I live in Boro Park and can also feel stifled with religion. I live with my mother who is very strict with Yiddishkeit. But I love her and know she means very well.
I just do what I want without her knowing and hurting her. But I will always keep Shabbos and kosher - that’s the main thing. You keep what you can - but that is the 2 basic.
I know of a lot of chassidishe dropouts - most of all of them are still religious but modern. Thre is an in between. You don’t have to give it all up. You can still be in the arts - if that is what you like. By the way - there is going to be a Chabad center for the Arts opening up somewhere - but it will be in Long Island.
People can be so closed minded and it’s upsetting to me how any Jew can call a Jew who is not religious a goy. I am not Lubavitch, but in Lubativch I have found them so excepting and they would never call you a goy for not being religious or religious enough.
Non-religious life might be exciting to you now - but sooner or later you will see how empty it can be. You are so beautiful - you will find a lot of the men who are not religious or not Jewish willl just want to have sex with you and then dump you. Just want you to beware of that.
Judaism can be so beautiful. Don’t give it all up!
Your friend,
- Rochel
By the way Gitty, I was once engaged to a chassidish guy from Williamsburg. He wasn’t Satmar but wen to a Satmar school. I broke the engagement. I know he would have made a good husband, but couldn’t see myself having to shave my head and living in Williamsburg was too much for me. I also wasn’t attracted to him - a big issue.
I had felt guilty for a while, but then when I confided with a Lubavitch Rabbi - Rabbi Manis Friedman of St. Paul, Minnesota. He is such an open minded Rabbi. I told him things I wouldn’t tell just any Rabbi. Would have been too embarrassed! Anyhow - he felt it was good I didn’t marry this chassidishe guy. I didn’t have any more guilt after that!
It was different for me - I wasn’t pushed into marrying this guy and always had the option to back out.
Anyhow - you can always write to me. I will try to be here for you!
Hatzlacha.
Kol Tuv,
Rochel
hi! I don’t know you and i’m just what you would call a typical open-minded B.Y. girl/ mommy. i read the article about you and i just couldn’t stop crying. I feel for you! In your strict lifestyle that you lived till now, how can someone put blame on you? you are trying to break away from all that rigidness that you endures and despised . My heart aches when I think how different your life would have been, had you joined a less rigid community such as wesley hills in monsey or even Flatbush before turning away so completely with so much hatred towards religion. Remember though, IT’S NOT too LATE! G-d will accept you with open arm. He’s your FATHER and Cares so MUCH about you! You might not feel this way now which I cannot judge, being that your daughter in on your mind and you just want her and it’s not going your way. I know how you feel. I have two and i would die for them.. But. G-d hears and sees everything. Gitty, you have a chance to change yourself and I promise, Ha-shem will do the rest. Leave it up to Him. He sees your suffering. HE knows a jewish mothers pain. Cry out to Him. I promise, HE will help you. I am praying for you each day. for your future. for your child. for G-d’s children .May He protect us all. All the best!
living it and loving it!
Gitty
I’d love to support you financially and also by being an ear and/or a shoulder just drop me a none and we can talk. J
PS I am alot older than you (in my 50’s) so I am not looking for a hookup.
Hello Gitty and fellow Bloggers
The message here should be one thing and one thing only, How do we get this child to have a Mother and a Father?????
If the emotions and the “I must win” attitude can put aside, then and only then a comppromised solution can be reached where both parents can be satisfied and the child can have the best of both worlds, a mom and a dad.
I know it can be done. Me
Gitty
All the friends and advise you get (including mine) must make your head spin.
Take a break, a breather so to speak try to focus, speak to your lawyer speak to some older people with some brains and prceeed.
Hugs, R
Good Morning Gitty
I wrote you an e-mail last night take me up on the offer its worth it. Roberto
Dear Gitty,
My heart breaks for you. I have lived through a very similar situation for the past 9 1/2 years, except I lived in the fanatic world of bal tshuvas in Passaic, NJ . Although they are not Hasidic, the peer pressure, halakas and fanaticism are exactly the same.
I became a balas tshuva after my second year of law school. I had 8 happy years of marriage to my bal tshuva husband, but once we moved to Passaic, and he fell in with Cantor Shlomo Singer he went off the deep end . My short sleeves and hair sticking out of my hat,were completely acceptable in any Modern Orthodox community drove, embarrassed him terribly in his “newly yeshivish” crowd.
My parents spent over $350,000 on a custody battle. I have joint custody of my 3 children, but my ex has residential custody and tortures me for every minute. Just this month, after 5 years of the same holiday alternation schedule, it took 3 police cars to get him to give me the children for July 4.
He remarried two years ago to a very cold and cruel FFB from Ireland with a mamzir daughter. She just had a baby with my ex. She uses my two daughters as her cleaning ladies. At 14 and 15 they are very accustomed to the “put on a skirt in the car before going back to Daddy’s” routine. My 9 year old son knows to put his tzitzis and black yalmuka back on.
I am 44 years old, an Ivy League graduate and licensed to practice law in NY. I can be a good source of advice and support for you. Please feel free to contact me at the above email address but do not publish it.
I hope that the Satmars did not retain Margo and Freddy Zemel to defend your ex- husband. They are ruthless, unscrupulous, lying sleazebags, but a good Judge will see their bias and that they should stick to real estate law. The worked for my ex pro-bono at the request of Rabbi Singer . During the same time they defended the KJ community which did not want an autopsy performed on a dead baby to determine if he/she had been the victim of child abuse.
Let me warn you now, my parents continue to spend over $1000 a month in legal fees. This doesn’t end until your child turns 18 or your ex has so many other babies that he doesn’t care about her anymore.
Stay strong, be brave, and know that NOTHING can break the bond of love your child feels for you.
Chutzpah
WOW HUGS!!!!! Ms. Chutzpa Please write to me Roberto@GroupUSAsia.com Thanks
אין וועלכע סקול אין קרית יואל האסטו געלערנט
even if u get custody for your daughter, she will turn out to be religous when she will turn 18, like your mother that will hurt you much more, and might have more an afeect on you, though realy i feel very bad for you that you didnt try a differnt place like flatbush you would enjoy it much more as a jewish mother may you make the right choice have your life set straight, remember there is another world out there.
Gittie,
Always know that you are not alone. You always have family here who will support you.
Gitty
You don’t have to live the all Yiddishkite because your anger of satmar community there is a lot steps you missed
You can live a Flatbush Jewish lifestyle where they happy birthday and they have DVD for common reasons there is no need to just go and eat pork
So please make your choice back and start being a Yiddish kind that’s the only way that you will fill the most satisfied
Thank you so much for writing to me…I’ve been very busy trying to catch up with everything that’s been going on…or I would have answered sooner. Your support means so much to me and will help me get through this.
I send you my heartfelt thanks and warmest regards
Gittele
I HOPE YOU WILL BECOME A BAL TSHUVA YOU WILL ALLWAYS BE A JEW AND THE other way is worse it will hit you some time good luck
This weekend my 15 1/2 year old put blond highlights in her hair when she was with me and her stepmother made her dye them brown again. Good thing she has more of a sense of humor about these things than I do!
Gitty, religious or not, you need to get your GED and some advanced education. Write me if you need help with that as well.
Thanks Gitty for writing your comment on this blog, thanking people for writing to you! That was so nice of you! I appreciate that - and I am sure others do as well!
Keep us posted! Let’s hear good news!
- Rochel
Maybe someone can help Gitty find a job? Or maybe you work in a place that has an opening? Possibly can train her as well? Big mitzvah - one of the highest forms of Tzedkah is finding someone a job.
I am not working myself. So can’t help her. Wish I can!
- Rochel
Gitty,
I hope you find a nice Frum Jewish neigborhood to settle down in. You will get a new life and learn about judaism which will make you an even better person then before. It does not have to be hasidic or ultra orthodox. I guarantee that you will also gain the respect of your parents, satmar community and most important your daughter. People have left Satmar and have made lives for themselves, you can also.
G-D bless you and show you the light.
Ben
Gitty - I definately agree with Ben - I think you do have a better chance on getting custody or at least joint custody if you do become Frum. I certainly do agree with Ben that it doesn’t have to be chasidish or ultra-Orthodox. I have met quite a number of ex-Chassidim in my life - and the ones who remained somewhat frum have done so much better than the ones who went totally off. It’s a dangerous world their in the goyishe velt. I am afraid for you, Gitty and care about you.. I would think Flatbush might best for you You need to be in a community where people will not look down on you and accept you. Crown Heights is another community - but can’t recommend living there.
Sometimes being frum in a not frum community can be less threatening and less pressue. So even a neighborhood outside of Flatbush could be good for you. I am not a maven - you know yourself better than I know you.
I have seen ex-chassidim who became totally secular destroy their lives. Got so messed up, unbelievable. I wouldn’t want to see this happen to you, Gitty!
I mean well Gitty - and want the best for you and your lovely daughter.
There are lots and lots of great wonderful frum people out there. So much chessed done in the frum community. You don’t see much of this in the not-frum community.
G-d bless the both of you!
- Rochel
Dear Gitty,
My husband and I were deeply moved by your story. We have a five year old daughter and we cannot imagine how a father of a child could subject their daughter to such a tormented environment where the mother is used as a hostage to a religous cult.
Freedom and liberty are gifts that everyone deserves and you and your daughter are so certainly entitled to the same. Stay strong, continue to dream , continue to see magic in the rainbow, and continue to cry out against this atrocity.
May God Bless you and give you strength,
Carol
Gitty would you take a Job in New jersey???
Hello Gitty
I read your story, and my heart goes out to you a young mother struggling, fighting a huge battle that can almost not be won given the circumstance of your drug test.
The big problem is, you may have taken the wrong path (in your own words “no path” see above) out of KJ, your path should have been straight to college for a career.
You obviously made mistakes, in the real world people pay for their mistakes, I dont understand what it is you are struggling for or against???? this is strictly a custody battle as I see it, it happens everyday and plays out in our Courtrooms on a daily basis, This has nothing to do with KJ, being Religious or Jewish, this is a simple custody fight, where I assume your husband claims you to be unfit as a mother because of drugs that you (admittedly) have taken, I dont get where religion or lack thereof plays a role. Please enlighten us. Bernard
Gitty,
I grew up in a very similar situation and I feel for you with every fiber of my being.
I still have family members in Monroe and in Monsey and I wouldn’t know them if they passed me on the street.
My father is a hasid and has always put “religion” before his children and now he is alone and miserable. He will never know his beautiful grandchildren.
Please stay strong for your daughter she will love you forever. I hope you can beat the system and get custody soon.
Gitty - say you get custody of Esther Malka and decide to raise her also not religious, send her to public school. With the intermarriage rate of over 50% - there is a good chance she will end up marrying a non-Jew. How would you feel about that? And sending her to pubic school - look at all the surveys - most kids in high school are having sex. How would you feel if she was having pre-marital sex - perhaps as early as her early teens - as a lot of kids in public schoos are like that these days? (And what about all these teens getting pregnant, having abortions?) You can’t tell me that it is better than her being frum and going to a Bais Yaakov type of school! What’ would be her chances of attending a Bais Yaakov type of scool and marrying a non-Jew? Practically zero. And what would her chance be for getting involved in pre-maritial sex while in a Bais Yaakov type of high school? Very small. And she is much more likely to rebel if she goes to public school then going to a Bais Yaakov type of school
By the way - I know someone very well who came from a frum family and left Judaism completely. He is on his 3rd non-Jewish wife. He has a son from a previous marriage who became a born again Christian. And his father, from a frum family was very upset about it.
I know another person whom I used to work with - was not frum but came from a frum family. She had 3 kids and all married non-Jews. She wanted her kids to marry Jews, but they didn’t care. What do you expect? She wasn’t religious and neither were her kids. So if you would raise Esther Malka not religious and tell her just to marry a Jew - people who are not religious - most of them it doesn’t make a difference to them. If they fall in love - that’s what matters to them most.
I also know of a non-relgious Jewish woman who went so far to marry a moslem. Why not? She’s not religious. Doesn’t matter to her.
And what’s your chance of your kid getting involved with drugs in high school? Certainly much higher than sending her to a Bais Yaakov type of school
Get the picture, Gitty? It could be much more difficult to raise a non-frum kid. Much, much more difficult than raising a frum kid. Generally - unless they start to rebel - like you?
Just you look around you in the frum communities - you are not blind - you see how much nachas these parents are having from their frum kids. Most anyhow. They are so much more well behaved. Compare that to public school kids!
Gitty - this is your choice. I needed to open your eyes up a bit. I am older and have seen alot in my lifetime.
I am saying this to you because I care.
Hugs.
- Rochel
I hope that you explore all areas in life and see that the only fulfilling life is one with judiasm. Find a nice easygoing community to live in. Once you are settled and get a normal job then you can get your dear girl back. Hashem is always ready for you.
I am a Jewish woman teaching at a public school in New Jersey. There is nothing wrong with the public school system. I was raised in a Conservative home and raised my daughter the same way. She knows she is Jewish without the brainwashing. I have every faith and confidence that she will marry a Jewish man because of her strong beliefs. These poor frum girls are so naive. The world that they live in is not real. They are merely vessels for childbearing and get absolutely no respect. I feel so bad for Gitty; she is obviously in a state of very late adolescent rebellion and needs to get her act together before any court will grant her custody of her daughter.
This Rachel is both really bored and desperate to get herself noticed.
im just wondering, in all these comments we get to see the love & care to Gitty by saying: be strong “you are in my prayers” what exactly do they mean by prayers?? is that prayers to G-D? or some kind of dreams that you call prayers? can some one explain that to me ? am i missing something?
I will prove to you that the only person who was interested in you was Yoiley. And all the people you are partying just needing you for “their” enjoyments
I will prove by the facts
1) None of the people you are parting have a normal life most are gay and don’t see any need for children
2) Even those who are married are not settled, and for any given reasons they will divorce are just go to a private apartment
3)Yoiley As you wrote tried all kinds of settlement living a discipline life a stable life within TORAH guidelines.
4) Even with no professional education the Jewish communities have lots of rich people.
5) The Jewish orthodox people are never broke they always real happy without partying.
I’m amazed of a boy from the Frum orthodox communities with shave beard have so strong principals.
Please think about the above facts and make your own disidion
And now what you are hare for
1) For the sake of you daughter, is better a true life (not just full of partying and no discipline)
2) You will survive when you will have a real look on what will be an ultimate solution for you (even when you will be at age of 50-70)
3) Think again about the life you choose if correct?
4) You will never find the real support at in artist style live
5) The best support and friends you may find in Flatbush or Far-Rockaway or other Jewish neighborhoods
I hope that you got all your answers hare
Lori
Hi
I respect you as a teacher, what do you teach???? how about you “brainwash” the kids with your teaching??? if a kid wants to disturb the class sit on his desk not do his homework, why discipline him, Let him be who he wants to be DONT BRAINWASH HIM, Besides, why did you tell your kid(s) that they are Jewish, why BRAINWASH em, who says the way you teach them RELIGION, (and you do because you brought her up as a “Conservative Jew”) is not brainwashing?????
In essence anything you teach (no pun) a kid you brainwash them.
While you may feel that by teaching your kid the Jewish religion in a conservative way, is not Brainwashing, so do the Orthodox, Ultra Orthodox and Chasidim feel that their way is not brainwashing.
Lovingly, B
Hi Lori
I see that you have the wrong definition on Jewish
What is the definition of conservative Jew?
How could you be Jewish without observing the TORAH laws and rules?
A Jew is not a culture name or neither sect name nor it does depend or you are doing the torah lays or not. Then you are just still consider a Jew because if you do Tshuveh (return) than you are accepted by GOT
May the almighty bring you all back to the real way of being Jewish,
Hi B,
Your reply makes no sense whatsoever…I teach accelerated English, and I can’t even begin to correct your mistakes…..Try to start your sentences with a capital letter so that they look like sentences and not the ramblings that they are.
L
HI.
I read the article. You are so misguided. Not being Jewish, I can still appreciate the path chosen by strictly orthodox Jews. If you felt constricted, you could’ve chosen a non-hassidic life, but to throw away your family, mother, and ruin your child’s life in the process was so reckless.
As the article proves, you have taken to a street life (”I smoked a joint a few weeks ago”). The street is very unforgiving. You will end up as a sex object, mistaking it for love. You threw away the best of lives for a false sense of freedom. You are free to become enslaved to the harsh environment of the free world. What a fool. I know that you will get many untrue words of support from people who envy you and are still on the “inside”, but oh how those people, all of them, regret having left a beautiful fulfilling life of the soul for a dark, ugly world of immediate gratification which never comes and never lasts.
Turn around quickly or you will be sorry.
From a gentile who envies Jews.
What is all this nonsense?
Open your pockets and give her some real support, and shut the f*** up.
There is one big thing about your, Gitty’s, whole story that I fail to understand: how is it in the best interest of a child for the government to place a child with a parent who is in a very unstable phase of life at the moment? Because of love? Of course Gitty loves her daughter and of course her daughter loves her, but more than anything a child needs a stable living condition and I fail to see how Gitty is able to provide that for her daughter at the current moment. Forgive me for using common sense, for I am only a relatively uneducated goy. To be painfully honest, Gitty sounds no different than loads of suburban young girls that I have known who have decided to “rebel” against what they considered “the establishment” and ended up destitute. Let’s face reality, Gitty didn’t make any hard decisions, she made easy, self-centered decisions. The hard decision would have been to stay with her daughter and figure out a happy medium between the life in KJ and life elsewhere, but that wouldn’t have been as instantly gratifying as ditching it all for the sake of her own rebelliousness. All I can say to Gitty as one human being to another is forget about yourself for a little while; how you want to look, what you want to eat, and what rules you want to follow and actually think about what is best for your daughter! There are many gradients of life between that which you grew up in and that which it sounds as though you have turned to; it is not one or the other.
כאטש אויב איך שטרענג מיך אן וואלט איך געקענט אויסקראצן א קאמענטאר אין א חסיד’ישן ענגליש, מוז איך אבער צוליב מאנגל אין צייט שרייבן אין אידיש.
טייערע גיטי,
איך בין א חסיד’ישער יונגערמאן פון בארא פארק וואס פילט שטארק מיט מיט דיר. דו ביסט אויפגעוואקסן אין א סאסייעטי וואס איז אינגאנצן דורכגעפוילט און קארופטירט מעיקרא, עס פארלאנגט זיך נאר אביסל “קאמאן סענס” צו אנטדעקן אז 99 פראצענט פון די געפרעדיגטע דאגמעס זענען אפענע שקרים.
גיטי, דו האסט געטאן א געוואגטער שריט, און אנטלאפן פון דיין חינוך, הונדערטער - אויב נישט טויזנטער - פון אונז זענען דיך מקנא. וויפיל טראכן ‘אוי הלוואי וואלט איך געהאט דעם כח און קוראזש זיך ארויסצורייסן פון דעם גרויליגן פלאנטער.’
איך וויל דא אבער איבער’חזר’ן דאס וואס איך האב געזען אז אנדערע האבן אויך אנגעמערקט. דיין שרעקליכע ערפארונג מיט חרדי’זם זאגט נישט גארנישט איבער די אמת’ן פון דעם קאסמוס, דער אמת איבער גאט ליגט באגראבן אין מחשבה צו וועלכע א מענטש וואס שעצט זיין אינטעלעקט דארף אליינס דערגיין.
רוב אידישע גרופעס האבן נישט די באגרעניצונגען מיט וועלכע דו ביסט אויפגעוואקסן, זיי אנערקענען אינדיווידואליזם, אייגנארטיגקייט, זיי נעמען אריין אין פראקטיק דעם “כשם שאין פרצופיהם שוות כך אין דעותיהם שוות”.
האלט זיך שטארק און פעסט, פארגעס פון דער שנאה און אנטאגאניזם מיט וועלכער מען האט דיך ערצויגן קעגן די ציונים, מאדערנע און קעגן אלע וואס גייען נישט אין דעם סאטמארער שפאן. דער קאמענטאר וואס איך האב געלייענט אין דעם “ניו יארק” ארטיקל וועגן דעם סאטמארער רבי’ן, “שיט, אהרן טייטלבוים!” איז נישט גוט, נישט פאר דיין הווה און נישט פאר דיין עתיד. כאטש ער איז טאקע נישט ווערט מער פון דער באצייכענונג איז אבער זיין ברודער - און די אלע וועלכע האבן דיך געהעצט קעגן דעם פערזאן - די זעלבע אויב נישט ערגער. פארגעס פון דעם קאמף קעגן אינדיווידועלן, זיי זענען אלע פון איין טייג געקנאטן, און פארדאם זיי אלע.
דער עיקר איז האלט זיך שטארק און זיי מצליח.
אויב דו ווילסט עפעס הילף פון מיר, וועל איך פראבירן צו טאן וואס איך קען. קענסט זיך פארבינדן אין אי מעיל.
Hi there
I’m really sorry for gitty that the love and luck of a jewish orthodux life was not explained teached or otherwise given to here. instead it was looking to here as a whole black dark experience. maybe its because she’s from a broken family or any other reason but any way you can look at all the pictures and you dosent sound lucky at all with your new way you’r just trying to run away from yourself and i can understand it very well in your situation, and as you defenetly know you can find alot of lucky and happy jewish girls and wemen (maybe even more then you can find in other communitys) so please instead of running away from yourself try to help yourself out from this whole bad experience so get some help (your new friends sound like they are all here for themselves not to sincerely help you) daven to hashem (at least try in a hard moment he’ll help you more then all …) and god bless you be well
Dear Shia,
When the ovens are open we are all Jews. If we were living side by side in Nazi Germany, we would both go to the camps.
My great grandfather was THE cantor of Budapest in the 1920s. It is not for a human being to judge who is a righteous Jew; it is up to Hashem.
L
Joe,
Can’t we keep this site clean???? This site was setup to fund Gitty’s legal defense etc.. But it has also become a place that we all could exchange ideas on this topic. Your insults don’t encourage donations, only discourage them.
Lori
Why not debate the fact not the Grammar.
Fact is, we all brainwash our kids but we tend to see it by someone else. So its not fair to call a Jewish Orthodox or chasidic upbringing “Brainwashing”.
Conservative Judaism and more so Reform Judaism, is brainwashing and confusing.
Whats wrong with your daugther marrying a non-jew???/ I know plenty of nice Christians, Catholics, Lutherans and even nice mulims why wont you be a happy mother if she falls in-love with one of them/??? have you perhaps “Brainwashed” her not to marry any of those “Nice people” if so why???? With Love B
Yisroel of ol pi shechoto, Yisroel Hi!! Gitty, you will never be able to run away from your destiny. The goyim around you will remind you in later years that you are a jew. This “Hashem” that was planted in your heart when you were young, will always be engraved there. There is no escape routes.
My heartfelt wishes to you and bracha for that matter: May you wake up on your own, not through anti semitic resentments. In the 1930’s Hitler ym”s reminded third generation goyim that their grandparents converted from Yiddishkeit. Hopefully it won’t take a Hitler to remind you of Hashem, and your roots. The same is to all of you rebels. Wake up before its to late, since in the end you will any how recognize your mistakes.
Like a previos poster said: Imagine your life in your seventies. (bt”w lost souls, drug/alcahol abusers, aka “partiers” don’t make it that long). All these shmuts loving people don’t seem to enjoy shuttling around bet. one man and the other. as pointed out, these people don’t like you they like themselves. They don’t care for you, they care for themselves. They don’t give a hoot to your plight, and will dump you: a if you get older, b when they find someone nicer.
An old saying sums it up: Be SMART don’t be RIGHT.
Your always welcome by your fellow yidden in Marine Park (without your education too), Cederherst (with your BA), or Flatbush. Out of town, it will be a bigger, but harder choice.
Please BE SMART not RIGHT!!
Hashem itchu
A fellow Marine Park’er
Hi, just a few words! talking on my experiences, I’m telling you, you will always think about your background, you will have sleepless nights, “come back”, don’t go too far, you will fall into drugs like all dropouts, come back atleast be Jewish up to a certain degree, be a happy Jewish girl, I’m sure you will thank me for those words
David
Bernard, you have your head screwed on right. Both of your comments are so right on.
Hi agian I have for you a job in Monsey, tell me if you still want it
I read your story, and while I feel sorry for all your pain and suffering ( and especially for your INNOCENT daughter)
I wonder why you have to distort well known facts.I remember when you got engaged, it was far from an arranged mariage to say the least…(I will leave it at that).
Also you have to look at the entire picture, because although you may be seeking the best for your kid, in the long run you are causing her irepable damage .
And you need to be honest at least with yourself as to the REAL STORY.
Hatzlocho Rabbo.
Hi…..
I really understand that Gitty comes form a broken family, and she had a hard time till now…….
But one thing I want tell you.. You can’t take a lesson from what’s going on in monroe, its a crazy place to stay or to live… Special with that stupid crazy “Aron Titllboum” who don’t know how to take care of the place MONROE normally, he only knows about one thing, and that’s when he start to talk in public he talks full of s….. And thats what in his mind the whole day.
Any way let’s go back to the point you did a mistake by going a way complete. you should have chose a better place to move out…. But still stay jewish,
Nobody told you that you have to stay in a stamar community there is so many places and so many community’s where to go to
Its never to late hasem should help that you should find the right way back… He is always ready to welcome you back
Good night
Lori - you raised your daughter with probably strong Jewish beliefs. But the fact is - and I read this all the time - about the public school system in New York is generally not great - and lets face the facts - you can’t deny the intermarriage rate is over 50%. And the fact is so many more Conservative Jews are intermarrying than Orthodox Jews - you can’t compare. Orthodox Jews have the lowest intermarriage rate - very low. Conservative Jews are much more likely to intermarry. You can’t deny this. If you do - you would be lying or just don’t know the facts. This website says that 32% of Conservative Jews intermarry: http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/WillYourGrandchildrenBeJews.htm.
I worked with a woman who considered herself Conservadox - more religious than many Conservative Jews and she has a child who intermarried. Her son married a non-Jew and her granchildren from that son are all not Jewish.
I sure hope your daughter does marry a Jewish man - and a nice one and wishing you lots of nachas from her!
GITTY, YOU CAN BE OBSERVANT, AND A GOOD JEW WITHOUT BEING CHASIDICH. SET AN EXAMPLE FOR YOUR DARLING DAUGHTER AND SHE WILL RESPECT YOU. YES, IT IS TRUE THAT YOU LEAD A STIFLED LIFE , LIVING IN A COCOON SHALL I SAY, BUT WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS. CHOOSE A WHOLESOME LIFE AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY. REMEMBER LET WHAT IS PRECIOUS TO YOU FREE , IF IT RETURNS IT IS YOURS, IF IT DOES NOT IT NEVER WAS. SET AN EXAMPLE FOR YOUR BEAUTIFUL DAUGHTER AND SHE WILL BE YOURS!! THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL FRUM LIFE OUT THERE. WISHING YOU GOOD LUCK AND MAY HASHEM GIVE YOU THE WHERE WITH ALL TO CONTINUE .
I think most of you are missing the point here! This shouldn’t be a forum to show our hatred towards one another!!! I can be certain that the New York Magizine would only love that too much!
Rather this should be a place where we can all work together to ultimatly help Gitty and do what’s best for her. Money is nice but how about someone suggesting where she can get a job and start earning her own money? ANd by the way Rachel I wish what you are saying is true but statistics show it’s not, It’s not about where you send your child to school it’s about how you raise them in what home type enviroment that will ensure them havinga proper life!!! Sorry to admit but there are Bais Yacov students who do marry non-jews while it’s tragic it’s very true!!!
In any case this forum shouldnt be a place where we slamm down on Gitty for who she is she needs our help and the first place we need to start is letting Gitty know that she can make it if she wants to!!!
Good Morning Lori
Once again its interesting to read how when it comes to “Your Judaism” you want to be Judged by “Hashem”, but when it comes to the “Orthodox and Hasids” its OK for you to be the judge that they are “Brainwashing” the kids.
Please dont forget, the Orthodox and the hasids went to the ovens TOO!!!!!! My ENTIRE (mothers and fathers side) family went into the ovens and perished.
Please be a MENTCH and apologize for your earlier comments>
Lovingly B.
Dear Shia,
When the ovens are open we are all Jews. If we were living side by side in Nazi Germany, we would both go to the camps.
My great grandfather was THE cantor of Budapest in the 1920s. It is not for a human being to judge who is a righteous Jew; it is up to Hashem.
Joe
are you getting the money raised on this site? You seem to know if people are donating at all.
Gitty, I can get you a job in a yiddish speaking office. of course you will have to commit to dress tzniusdig and be aidel. They will provide basic training. If you consider it, please get back to me with a post on the blog.
Truthfully the whole discussion should have been in yiddish in the first place, so that nor inz kenen forshtein, s’vet shporen chilul Hashem.
Dear Gitty,
I was so exited to find your site after reading your story… you really cant give up, actually, you have no idea how beautiful life will be for you. it almost feels like sisters seperated at birth….
You need to get away from this negativity, at least all this is known now, and more like you will speak freely ….
Please write me and i know i can help you
Anyone, anyone that needs a spark, and get past your fear of living a nice moral and healthy life that YOU choose, contact me Leahsurvived@live.com
All my love and strenght to you and to all of us that are looking for peace and tranquility we all deserve….
Leah
I will try to reply to all of you and help as much as I can, that is my way of giving back to the ones that helped me see and discover my strenghth!
Hi Gitty
again i really understand your pain but do you think this world created itself there is defenetly a bashefer who created it and is leading it and if you can stand to the obligations he is requesting make sure you dont go too far so when you calm down you have a way back at least. and also dont harm your sweet daughter too bad come back it is sweet here you will notice it sooner or later god has his ways of taking care of people so make sure not to get him angry daven to him alot and he’ll help more and better then you can ever think of . be well and god bless you
Hi, Adina, hi, everybody!
I agree with you - This shouldn’t be a forum to show our hatred towards one another.
And yest- also agree with you Adina, - money is nice. I did write Gitty personally - suggest for her to go to COJO - Council of Jewish Organixations in Flatbush. The have job assistance and can also help write a resume for her. They also sometimes have free training courses - in computers. She should be eligible for the courses. How does that sound Adina? Oh - Project Cope - part of Agudah is another one.
Dear Adina - statistics are true. I even provided a website on the statistics on intermarriage. The percentage of Reform, Conservative and Orthodox intermarriages Orthodox was the lowest - very low. Do a Google search, as I did. I don’t have time to give the link for all websites. The American Jewish Committe probably has a good one. Intermarriage in the frum community is rare. I didn’t say it never happens. I by the way went to Bais Yaakov. Out of about 32 girls in my class - about 30 got married - all of them to Jews. And I have sisters who also went to Bais Yaakov. I don’t think any of their classmates married non-Jews.
I want my fellow Frineds for Gitty to realize I have no objection really to anybody. I get along very well with Jews of all backgrounds AND with non-Jews as well. I do volunteer work and help Jews of all backgrounds and non-Jews as well.
Adina - It DOES make a dffierence Adina where you send your child to school. Some schools can have wild kids. You have to be careful. However I do agree with you - so important how you raise your kids at home. Parents have to be a good example to their kids. And have to instill in them values. Very important. They shouldn’t rely on the school to do that!
Have another idea for Gitty - volunteer work. Yes I know - more important to look for a job and make money - but it can do wonders for one’s self esteem to do some volunteer work on the side. Maybe if Gitty would do volunteer work for some organization - they might like her and hire her! I am not a kidding and not a hypocrite - I was working on a job and on my vacation I did volunteer work for a non-profit organization only for a couple of days. They liked me and wanted to hire me! I was somewhat happy with the regular job I had - but had considered taking this job offer on the volunteer job, but declined. Anyhow - if Gitty wants to get a job in a non-profit organization - there are some great big ones out there. Doesn’t have to be a Jewish one - but how about UJA Federation? Not religious - no pressure.
Anyhow “guys” whadya think?
- Rochel
By the way - as I mentioned before - I had gone to Bais Yaakov. I had long hair for a while, down to my waist. So did another classmate. And we wore it loose - no ponytail. That was ok. No one criticized me for that in school. If however I was in Kiryat Joel or Bais Rochel (Satmar), certainly would have been chided for that.
I am happy I wasn’t brought up Satmar. My father not terribly eligious - followed one chassidish sect- my father, but my mother very strict. But - as I may have said before - I love my mother (father passed away) and try to make her happy in every way. But I do what I want when she is not looking. Not rebellious. I guess I found the best in both worlds! I am stricly kosher though and Shomer Shabbos. But I like to have fun too.
Once I worked with a Jewish guy who was not religious - somewhat anti, but he said he liked me because I was normal with the religon. Wasn’t interested in him personally by the way. He was too wild for me. I also not interested in anybody who is anti anybody!
******
Another thought - maybe Gitty would fit into to Carlebach crowd on the West-Side of Manhattan? No religious pressure there.
Reb. Shlomo Carlebach, Z”l loved all Jews.
Peace Y’all!
- Rochel
- Rochel
Gitty Gitty
you are so brave, tell the world how you have been treated,
Rochel-
I am glad we both agree on the major things and I am ever more happy that you have suggested those options for Gitty. It appears to me that most of us want to really jump in and help! I have to assume that that’s the reason why Gitty started this website to solicit our help, but taking those first steps are not easy so Gitty we are all rooting for you and know that whatever advice we can give to make your transition into a calmer life, we are willing to help! Even though the actual article in the magizine was not a positive thing and it made most of our stomaches turn, I believe we all know it was the biggest cry for help one can give!!!
The Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed for many reasons and amoung them was Yidden not reaching our to one another. Gitty we would like to eradicate the mistakes of our past and only learn from it so please take our hand as we reach out to yours.
ADINA
Adina - well said! I think all of us mean very well and we sympathise her plight and only want the best for her.
- Rochel
Rochel
Can you write to me in Private? Thanks
Roberto@GroupUSAsia.com
Dear lory
the reason the ovens ware open is that what i wrote that a Jew is all was welcome to do tsuhvah and Hashem will accept it
but the fact that we can only judge by what our eyes see, If someone embarrasses Hashem on purpose we may not except him in our crowed
you wrote that your grate grandfather was a cantor in Budapest. you forget to mention that all of us had a great grandfather TERACH who was the First POPE, but Hashem didn’t select him for “our father” and he also had a open over for his son.
THERFORE remember you will only find the truth when you fallow the Torah Stories and laws
Shia
Hi,……….. 1. i want to thanks all of who spent time to write some good words for our dear ,,,,,FRIEND GITTY,,,,, hashem should pay you all back for the great work …. 2. about the situation what we are discussing over here regarding gitt’ys life style ……..
I belive and understand her situation 100% ,, But dont forget all of you from which family she is coming from … yes right she has a bed memory from her young life what she went thru … so my words to all … lets try to tell her that we are all her to help and support her .. But on the other side lets try to explain her whats the pay back for a “”"JEWISH MOTHER”"” so to you gitty you have the a WELCOME by all of us and you can tottaly leave a normal life style in monsey/flathbush/five towns /NJ all over for any comments you can email me All the best
Gitty.
I am glad i found this site, with all the garbage written on other sites. you did the right thing creating a forum for FRIENDS for gitty, rather then having all enemies, bashers and people that judge you write, let them write somewhere else, I will check back to read more of people who support you,
with support
Ari
For those who wonder, gitty has been clean for 5 months, so dont buy the idea that she is on drugs, SHE IS NOT.
a friend.
Dear Gitty,
I am not Jewish and was not raised in an insular community like you were yet I can identify with your confusion and also with the many comments regarding ” keeping the faith”, so to speak.
You remind me of myself when I was 22yrs old. I was trying to find myself etc.etc.blah, blah, blah. In the big bad world there are many good people, of many faiths , and some not so good. I was lucky in that I met some lovely , fun, nice people…BUT I think a huge reason for that was that I was raised properly and I did not drink, do drugs or smoke.. (though I did dance my butt off!). Others trying to find themselves and navigate school, jobs, life… are not so lucky if they fall into the wrong crowd, persausion.
Use your mind and always trust your gut instinct! If someone seems creepy , they probably are! Keep yourself away from people who claim to be artistic then offer you coke, weed etc. to experience life…what a crock! These are a few reasons I respect the other posters telling you to “keep the faith”, everyone needs a moral compass to navigate life’s waters!
Beware of some religious people! They prey on the confused and vulnerable! Take it slow and easy and again TRUST your GUT! If anyone trys to RUSH you into ANYTHING like THEIR religion, community, or a job!… a red light should go off in your gut!
Listen but don’t commit till you have reassesed it. Get a lawyer and use your grandparents experience to help guide you! They sound very grounded
I was not raised religiously but I sometimes wish I was . I don’t know you but I recognize you. I also don’t have a beautiful baby so I can only imagine what you are going through. I hope you and your ex-husband can manage a civil co-parenting arrangement and that he respect you as the mother and you respect him as the father, both parents of your child. In my opinion the Church should have little say. Let this little girl be able to be raised by her 2 loving , biological parents! God bless!
P.S. I wish you and all of your family well! From looking ay this blog it seems like you have alot of supporters!
Take your time and talk to many to form an educated opinion regarding what is in your best interests. Good luck! you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Rene
Are only Jewish people allowed on this site? Disregard this comment if and ever my previous comments that are “awaiting moderation” ever get posted,
As I said you and your whole family are in my thoughts and prayers.
Lapsed Catholic!
Want to share this with all:
“Power of Choice” - by F.N. Weber
The power of choice is real. We can…
Choose to love - rather than hate.
Choose to persever - rather than quit.
Choose to praise - rather than gossip
Choose to give - rather than grasp.
Choose to forgive - rather than curse.
Choose to smile - rather than frown.
Choose to build - rather than destroy.
Choose to heal - rather than wound
Choose to act - rather than delay.
Choose to pray - rather than despair.
Each day brings a new opportunity to choose.
What kind of choiced will you make today?
___________
From L. Watson:
“True happiness stems from a quality within ourselves, from a way of thinking of life. Of all the millions of words written on happiness, this is the oldest and most enduring truth. If the principles of contentment are not within us, no material success, no pleasures or possessions, can make up happy.”
Gitty has been clean clean clean. No drugs no alcohol no hard partying. She has had an amazing comeback!
Keep it the fuck up gitty!
We all know the love you have for your daughter. ..no need to prove it to anyone…
Gitty,
Although I don’t know you, your story touches my heart like it does to so many others. I’m surprised that you feel the need to apologize for seeking YOUR truth.
I truly believe that each and every one of us is obligated to yearn and find what is right path for them.
You obviously must have gone through some extremely tough times, while adding on top of that being constantly judged by our dear “frum” people. Doesn’t it clearly say “kshot atsmecha veachar kach kshot acherim?”
How is it that they all forget those important saying of chazal and concentrate on focusing on the negative of people. What happened to compassion? What happened to understanding others?
You first have to find out who you are, and how to feel comfortable in your own skin, and I’m sure God will help you to get your daughter back. The truth always comes up.
Good luck to you from the bottom of my heart!!!
Keep strong, we’re all behind you!!
Love and Peace !!
Ruti
Dear Gitty, I understand your situation fully and feel with your pain, but where in the other world would you find people with hearts of “gold” like almost of us which would die for another Yid. Like Hatzolah, Chai Lifeline, Chesed, RCC, Bonie Olem, Chavra Kdisha etc. you wouldn’t find it in the other side. Where in the church? etc. who will look at you, or try to help you. So again its only your beloved yiddishe brothers and sisters who will fight for you and would do everything possible for you.Sso please think how far you go, you shouldn’t get loosed on the way. Maybe we didn’t knew enough before, to help you, but now come back to us (you don’t need to be frum just be a yid and don’t paint your white nashuma. Again we all feel your pain and are here to help you.
bla bla blahhhhhhhhhhhh
This women is swamped in legal bills….can you guys put yourselvs aside for a minute…and I know it will be very hard to do….show you care and help her out
Renee
GM very very well said, especially that last paragraph, so I will just quote it;
“I hope you and your ex-husband can manage a civil co-parenting arrangement and that he respect(s) you as the mother and you respect him as the father, both parents of your child. In my opinion the Church should have little say. Let this little girl be able to be raised by her 2 loving , biological parents! God bless!”
Have a great Shabbat Y’all. R
“
Gitty, I understand where you coming from completely. In my late 20’s I emancipated from a community similar to yours - not as religious but where women should be seen & not heard, be prevented from getting an education, be punished for any sexual freedom (while of course the men got to enjoy themselves without repercussion), completely defer to a man, and mean nothing but the threads she wore. I know the feeling of seeing the “outside world” for the 1st time - independent women supporting themselves and making their own decisions. It was like being let out of a cage. I have not married nor had children but I am still struggling to finish my education & suffer every day knowing my life could have been more successful had I been given the same opportunities to use my natural intelligence. There is no doubt that receiving a college education early in life sets you up financially, professionally and socially. To prevent a person from receiving it in this country is a tantamount to a crime. Educational deprivation only works if one never leaves the enclave in which is was perpetuated, otherwise it is not easy to survive. You are still young and have many opportunities ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck in your choices and remember - your self-liberation shows you are definitely a thinker.
Ben - well said. There is so many chessed organizations in the Orthodox Jewish community. How about also the organization Mesaskim? They go to houses of shiva, set up comfortable chairs, air conditioners if it is hot and the house of shiva,, also set up water coolers, FREE. And what about all the G’machs? If people need clothes, money for poor brides, food, medical supplies, so many, many organizations and G’machs - one day I will count in the Ultra-Orthodox newspaper Hamodia that comes out on Monday - they have a G’mach list. When I needed something on a Shabbos or Yom Tov for my mother - a drug store item - there was a G;mach listing for someone who had all kinds of drug store and medical items - walked over to someone’s house and they gave me what my mother needed. FREE. Yes - these organizations, G’machs started by Orthodox Jews and would be terribly missed by someone who drops out of an Orthodox community.
Forgot to mention about another Ultra-Orthodox Jewish organization of volunteers - Chaverim - that helps people and is a FREE service:
“Chaverim” divisions have ben opening up in various Jewish communities. If anyone ever called them, you know how amazing they are. In just minutes from making a phone call, you have a Chaverim volunteer at your car to give you a boost, change your flat tire, open your car-door if your locked out etc etc. Can you imagine - FREE!
All these organizations I mentioned and Ben mentioned - all started by Orthodox Jews - mostly Ultra-Orthodox and many of them - perhaps most - by Chassidic people. Have any Chassidic dropouts started any such type of organization helping people and not charging money?
I am not bashing by the way, G-d forbid the Chassidic dropouts. I have met some and I am friendly with them. Just want to point out there are a tremedous amount of caring people in the Orthodox Jewish community - give so much of their time and money - the community they have left and don’t want to have anything to do with.
Gitty - forgot to tell you - when I read the New York Magazine article - the picture of your mother pinning your top for Tzneius reasons - reminded me of my mother who had done that to me. But I usually do it myself now. Also - with the Pringles - being OU-D - your ex being against it, reminded me of my mother who has complained to me about my brother buying products with OU-D - not being Chalav Yisroel. So I tell her ususally that I will speak to him to not buy OU-D. But next time she notices that my brother is buying OU-D - if he still does - I will tell her at least he is religious. He was Chassidish, but no longer is and is now modern Orthodox - and happy.
Also - regarding the Barbie doll being called an Avodah Zarah - I can also relate to. I was allowed to have my Barbie Doll - that wasn’t an issue - but my mother threw out our TV when I was 11 years old because she felt it was an avodah zarah. That was tough. I did though by another one and hid it in the closet.
Dear Gitty,
Hi!
I sympathise with the difficult time you are having! Hope you are doing well under these circumstances!
I am very busy with my life - but maybe I can help teach you a skill? Do you need help with the internet? Do you know Microsoft Word? Would like to try to help you. I am not available often - but if you want I can teach you and I will try to find time - perhaps once a week. It can be at your apartment or a friends - I live in Boro Park. But can go to Flatbush. I will do this for free by the way.
I am Orthodox - but you will feel comfortable with me I get along great with everybody on every level.
Think about it! If you are interested, you can e-mail me at Caringperson136@aol.com.
Hope to hear from you!
Gitty, i aam a Yoely. but an open minded Yoely. i KNEW about lobster etc. being brought up in a strict home does not justify being over aveirus! your parents gave you a shaky upbringing and It’s not easy. but we all know where the truth lies. It’s judaism which holds the key to a beautiful, meaningful life. if You’re not gaps with the way your life is going, you don’t have to in to the other extreme. you could be an hashem fearing jew and still be happy. better said, only then can you be happy. come back to us, and your life will be worth living!
why distroy the child you love we all know you dont want her to grow up like you not being happy set youre life with normal standards so youre child will understand how to a normal person and jew ,
get guidence from a person that undersands youre needs in life juadism doesnt mean exreme but since you are heart foralong time youre giving out youre feelings in a very igrassive way we understand you but this greeve can be put aside after a while statr thinking about a normal jewish future we haave all different kinds of communities find the right one you want to feel comfortable in and start meking wise choices for yourself and for youre dauter
we know youre backround we know and understand where youre coming from how extreme but its time to compromise with hashem so he will agree ton compromise with you too
good luck in youre future remember hasham he will remeember you
DONT GIVE UP IN LIFE !
As a mother (also a BT) of three kids who went off the derech (not chasidish - just plain frum), and came back modern, I can say first hand, that children who are raised in the frum world, when they go off, they don’t fit in either worlds! The transition is a nightmare and trying to fit in is like putting a square peg in a round hole! I read your article, your remarks, and the publics’ comments … Without a doubt, you need a support system! Please allow me to make some points from personal experience? I was raised with hippies in a drug infused and promiscuous culture. I also have a legal background! So with my credentials on the table, there is some advise I must share with you that is never going to be negotiable.
•ANY substance abuse is unacceptable!
•Any blatant promiscuous behavior will always be considered!
•Learn how to spell
•Get an education
•Dress respectfully in both worlds …
This is your sure ticket in the courts considering you the more fit parent; just remember, you will be under watchful eyes for many years to come and you should make the stage as graceful and respectful as possible. Hashem leads his people where they want to go! Don’t ever forget that! So if you do good, good will come to you! I see from your “fan base” that many hundreds of people will be watching you and helping you define yourself as best as you can. I wish you the best and you’re always welcome to e mail me. Beth
By they way - want to clarify or add to what I wrote late last night. I wrote my mother threw out the TV when I was 11 years old because she felt it was an Avodah Zarah and I had bought another one and hid it in the closet. It was a little tough at the time. I had it until I was 11 - and all of a sudden it was gone. I do agree though that TV can be a terrible thing to have, particulaly when you have small kids in the house. If I was married and had kids, I wouldn’t want it in the house. Even if I was married and didn’t have kids, I wouldn’t want my husband to watch all the garbage that is on TV. So I have a small TV - that I put away - but very rarely wach it. In fact - I can’t remember the last time I put it on! I am so busy - I would agree with anyone that it is a waste of time to watch. If I had one out though - not hidden - what most interests me is the news.
In a way - looking back - it was good my mother threw it out - I would have perhaps wasted more time watching TV. And maybe my younger brother wouldn’t have done so well in school, had my mother still had it in the house while he was growing up.
I know my mother means well in everything she does.
So - even though I have a mother whom is so “Ultra-Orthodox” and can be very excessive with religion, I would never drop yiddishkeit. I love Shabbos and can’t imagine my life without it. And being brought up kosher - the thought of eating something not kosher - makes me sick. Two of the things that distinquish us from non-Jews - is Kashrus & Shabbos. But to call people who don’t keep Shabbos or Kashrus,a goy, is horrible.
I would like to hear someone talk to people in Kiryat Joel the importance of Ahavas Yisroel - for Jews of all levels. To make them realize if they push yiddishkeit so hard from people who are struggling with it - they can push them to the other extreme. I think there are so much more dropouts in Satmar then in any other Chassidic sect.
By the way - my mother feels that if you see someone doing something wrong and you don’t tell them, the person who sees that person doing wrong gets the aveirah for not telling the person who is doing the wrong I am not doubting that this is true.
Dear Sister Gitty,
Stay strong and know that your brothers and sisters love you and are touched by your plight.
I too left my Chasidisha Community in Boro Park, after a terrible marriage which ultimately caused me to be separated from my two boys.
Although, I always remained shomer shabos, I too dabbled in an alternative lifestyle which included drugs, partying and exploration.
Without a high school education, my options were very limited.
I studied for my G.E.D went to college and ultimately law school.
B’H, I remarried a wonderful modern orthodox girl and moved to Western Canada.
Fast forward 10 years - today I’m a Breslover Chasid … with a full beard and payos and practising law in a community where there are no frum Yidden and getting away from the “establishment” was the best thing for my nesomah.
Today I have a fantastic relationship with my three boys.
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
You can make your life what you want out of it.
Dear sister from someone who has been there and done that, recognize life’s a journey, and take it a day at a time.
Don’t give up hope… Be patient…. Focus on being the best person you can be and you will reconnect with your daughter.
You might want to consider not fighting the legal battle for custody quite right now. Get yourself in the most healthiest and stable position i.e. Education, Job and support systems. You only have so much energy to expend. And most of all talk to Hashem, in your own words, because Hashem wants us to serve him davkah in the place that we are at.. That is our inheritance as Jews, the power of our mouth Hakol Kol Yacov … You will see change, transformation and indeed miracles
Chazak Vematz sister
Becovod
Aharon
gitty!
i see how strong you are till here, dont give up, its never over, and keep your strength going on and on…. you still in god’s hands
lester
Dear Gitty,
You are an inspiration for all women out there. Do not give up hope. You are doing the right thing. NOBODY has the right to tell you what to do, how to act, what to think, and especially not in the name of some “god”. you have the right to your own life. I have met so many people over the years who are religious (i grew up , and was modern-orthodox till a few years ago), and are wonderful people but i have met so many more who are suffering so much - who are abused, who are hurt, who are controlled by their parents or husbands. Good for you for stepping up for yourself.
Don’t listen to the people who want so strongly to believe that that world is the ‘correct’ one or the only one. there are other ways to live a fulfilling, meaningful, productive life. I know that - I am proof of it. I would rather be alone and poor and honest with myself than married and suffering.
good luck to you
Hi you Gitty are a good person but Gitty did you took the the easy way to rebell aganst god and your mother who gave you life on this world .I understand you were not happy
Check this out baby
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080727/NEWS/807270328
once again I am moved by all these letters: This is what human kindness is all about Jewish or not everyone wants the best for you! Gitty we are all here for you and I am sure all agree that the New York Magizine didnt even begin to touch upon your story! We are here for you and want the best for you!
Each night before you go to sleep remember you are going to get thru this , pray silently for us as we will for you! Each of us for varios reasons need prayer and believe it or not you have that power too!!!
Keep up your strength!
Adina
Dear Gitty,
I would like to treat you to a FREE TRIP for 2 weeks to St. Paul (Twin Cites) Minnesota this summer! Take me up on it! Would love to go myself, again!
I have been to Bais Chana Women’s Institute in St. Paul, MN, many times in the past. Loved it there! It was the greatest vacation. It was sort of like a Club Med. Great food, people, trips People come from all over the world to this great place. You get to run around on your own - come and go as you please. I loved going to “Mall of America” - the largest shopping mall in the U.S. Loved the Minnesota State Fair.! Most of the girls who attend are not religious. Sometimes people who are not Jewish attend as well. There is no pressure. You don’t have to go to all of the classes. Rabbi Manis Friedman gives 1 or 2 classes a day. He is soooo cool! Everyone loves him and his classes. He talks alot about relationships. Everyone loves that. Also about life itself. Everyone interacts, talks about their own personal life or relationships. It’s not like he just gives a class.
There is no pressure there! People dress as they like. People would come to pants to his class, short sleeves - everything goes there!
I went once with a co-worker who was not religious. Her kids who were totally secular were afraid if she goes she might get brainwashed and become religious. Well guess what - they were wrong - she came back not religious but had a great time! She just loved it there. Also - I once went there with someone who wore pants. She loved the fact that no one gave her mussar and talked to her about tznius. She had a fantastic time. Everyone does!
There are so many fascinating people there - as I said from all over the world. I met a girl from Hong Kong, women from Europe, South America, Australia, and of course from all over the US. Very fascinating people. Met people who are not Jewish who love going to this Rabbi’s classes. Iv’e met people who are in the process of converting to Judaism. Even met a woman who was studying to become a Reform Rabbi! She loved it there as well! I know someone who taught in a Conservative school - the woman Rabbi who worked at the Conservative school, also went to this great Bais Chana Institute!
They are only open part of the winter and summer. The summer session only runs until August 17th. if you don’t want to go for 2 weeks - how about a week or even a long weekend! it is so beautiful there! And you won’t have to pay! I would treat you!
Please let me know! I guarantee you would have a lgreat time!
More info about Bais Chana is on their website at
http://www.baischana.org/content/view/61/194/
Gitty- hang in there! Reading all these comments - so nice to see that so many people care about you and want the best for you! (-:
I know, life isn’t so easy.
I read on the New York Magazine website - blogs on the story - someone wrote lots of people are reading it in KJ. Hope they open their eyes and will be more tolerant to people who are less observant or people not observant at all.
After reading the article, I feel so lucky to not have been brought up in that community! As so many others who read the article
Gitty I just hope great things will happen to you and you will be happy in the end!
Gitty - I hope you get your daughter back!
gittel, when i read your article i thought of so many times when you tried calling to speak to your daughter and got the run around and sometimes they didn’t answer and seeing the pain you had. i know what that feeling is like. but i am happy to see you taking a stand and not being afraid of the cult! LOL you know i am a big fan of them !!! hopefully in time it will all work out for you and youll have your beautiful daughter back with you where she belongs….until that day comes keep your head up and stay strong no matter what……….i wish you all the best in your struggle………Sincerely Chris
Chris - Satmar it is not a cult - it is a religious sect. And there are extremists in this sect as there are extremists in every religion and need to be taught to be more tolerable to their fellow Jew - who is not religious or not as religious as they are.
If I was in KJ and I saw people not treating Gitty right - I would rebuke them and remind them that it says in the Torah to “Love your fellow as yourself.” Treat others like you want to be treated - and that is with kindness.
I also mean just as well as you do for Gitty - and hope things work out well for her and her daughter!
Rochel-
to say Satmar is not a cult….isnt quite true…what to you defines a cult?? It is a group of people brainwashed to do things the way a leader chooses….and let me tell you something….in satmar, if a teitelbaum says jump….anyone in the community will say how high? I am a BT myself through Lubavitch, and did some exploring through the Satmar world….and though it has some beautiful aspects, it is a complete cult….and 70% of the people living in it are miserable just like Gitty was….but dont have the chutzpah to leave… Look at the story about the guy (I will leave nameless…those who already know what im talking about will know who it is) from williamsburg that acted in a movie a while ago….did you know his kids were kicked out of school and that he was harrassed on a daily basis until he dropped out of the movie? and he did everything completely by the book when it came to dealing with women etc etc….The Satmar community is ruthless….and in KJ it is even worse…
Gitty- I feel so awful for you….I always thought I wanted to be a part of the Satmar community, but after meeting so many unhappy people, some who have left and others still there I realized I would never make the cut….I know people are telling you to stay frum and live a Torah life…in a way, they are right….this is the way you will feel most comfortable…I am a BT that has fallen back off the derech and gotten back on a few times but always end up falling back to SOME sort of yiddishkeit…(obviously not KJ style…) By the same token, I have also tried to live the double life…when you wear a skirt by day and jeans and a tank top at night…this is the worst….worse than dropping yiddishkeit in a way altogether, because if u live a life like this you will be absolutely miserable… Gitty, I truly wish you all the best with this struggle…. Always know you are never alone….many many many people are going through the same battles whether in KJ or Viznitz or Bobov or Skvere it happens all over…. Also, I want to say it is beautiful that you took all this and put it in the media…because its about time others knew about it….Unless you live it, you will never understand right? Anyway, much hatzlocho with your daughter….everything will turn out for the best in the end…just always beware that these people are in for the kill…and will do anything to win the battle…. get your education, settle down with a job, and keep away from the ex-kj convicts…believe me, i hung out with the same people once too…most importantly, stay strong and always keep your chin up! We are all praying for you to win this!
Gitty:
My family came from Lubavitcher background in the Catskills before moving to Brooklyn. On the non-religious side, some of us are still up there. We are strong women who don’t take crap, protect our families and each other, explore the world, make our own mistakes and learn from them, and keep trying. We are proud to be Jewish and some of us observe the Mitzvot in varying degrees. We even marry nice guys. Make your own way. Don’t give up. There are more cool people out there, happy to help you with no strings attached, than there are the other kind - but those exist too.
No matter what they may claim, haredim don’t define Judaism or what it means to be Jewish. Out here - women read Talmud. Talmudic discussions trotted along for generations, until about 350 years ago when everything stopped developing. That’s ridiculous. Imagine Moses wearing a streimel. Funny, huh?
The essence of Judaism is thinking, trying to understand, and discovery, communication and love. Trust yourself. Don’t take anything just because some authority says so.
Don’t give up. Esther Miriam needs you now, and as she grows up she will need you even more.
Mazal Tov,
TK
I was looking at the Hamodia before that has the Gemach listiings - people who started all these - mostly individuals to help people with all kinds of needs - mostly all free of charge. There are hundreds, I started counting but didn’t have time to finnish. People offering to help for all kinds of things - mostly all free - furnniture - all kinds, medical supplies, clothing for everyone - from infancy to adulthood including maternity clothes, free advise/support on mental health issues, food, household items, bridal gowns, everything for baby - including cribs, car seats, formula, interest free loans, providing free entertainment to sick children in hospitals/homes, you name it! All run by Orthodox Jews, many by Ultra Orthodox and Chassidim. We’re all not so bad, Gitty! You won’t see ads for Gemachs in the Village Voice, NY Daily News/Post/Times!
Just want to notify people who are reading these postings - in case those are outside of the Orthodox Jewish Community and don’t know this - there are hotlines for a free advice.
1. Yittel Leibel Help Line - (718) 435-7669 (ad says “Confidential free phone support consultations”)
2. 1-800-400-Ohel (6435) (ad says “Need a professional to talk to”)
It’s unclear why the rabinical courts would have jurisdiction over the state family court. It should be fairly straight forward. The children of split parents almost always go to the mother except for cases where there’s history of abuse or where the environment is unfit. Having a past where one dabbled in recreational drugs does not automatically make the living situation unfit. Neither does having a low (or no) income automatically mean the child will live with the other parent.
The law is on your side. I wish you all the best.
Aaron-
your comments are amazing!
Rochel- you never cease to amaze me! you are so helpfull!
Gitty-
Hang in there my friend look at all of us we are right here for you all we need you to do is NOT GIVE UP!!!
Tell us how you are and what is making you happy!
Adina
Adina - that was sweet what you wrote!
Gitty - like Adina - I also want to know hou you are and what is making you happy!
Blown away -
Gosh - some of the Satmar tactics do sound kind of like a cult. My landlord is Satmar by the way - and can’t see him being like some of the aggressive Satmars. The whole family is so nice. Even to the non-Jewish cleaning woman they had. Would ask her if she wanted a drink in between cleaning. Didn’t wait for her to ask. In the winter, my landlord from time to time asks us if we have enough heat. Really wonderful person. Couldn’t ask for a better landlord..
To say that 70% of people in KJ are miserable? Did you take a poll? I extremely doubt such a large percentage. Maybe that was a typo. I am sure though that there are others in KJ that are miserable like Gitty, Wouldn’t be surprised if there were many like her.
In general, I think Satmar has a larger percentage of dropouts than other Chassidim.
No offense to some of the Satmars out there - but after Gitty’s ordeal, I feel luck to have not been born into a Satmar family. Whew!
Gitty, I’ll just repeat what others have already said before me, there’s a long road from being chassidish & ‘frei’. Why wouldn’t you try something in between like Flatbush type, Lubavitch - a liberal chassidus, or modern orthodox, anyhing as long as you keep th